Plugs?

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 03/13/2019 at 09:30 • Filed to: None

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I have to get new spark plugs for my 03 Odyssey. My Honda guy will install them while doing other work, but he said they have to be NGK plugs (the dealer charges $26.99 each for them, so I figured I could do better ). What is the difference between these plugs, other than price?

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! $13.69

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! $7.99

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! $3.49

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! $2.49  

Nibby > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 09:36

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get diamond coated ones dude

facw > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 09:38

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Obviously the highest level difference is the metal. Precious metal plugs last longer, and there are differences in life between Iridium and Platinum as well. Beyond that, different designs may have different shapes to improve spark, different stock gapping, different anti-corrosion/ anit-seize coatings, etc. Unfortunately, I can’t tell you the difference between those specific models.

I got these last time I did my plugs (granted quite a while ago now), but I have no idea if they would work in the Odyssey:

NGK 6418 BKR6EIX Iridium IX Spark Plug, Pack of 4 ($24.88)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BUCXI8

ttyymmnn > facw 03/13/2019 at 09:40

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Pack of 4 ($24.88)

I need six......

The last set of plugs, whatever they are, lasted about 100k miles.

facw > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 09:42

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Your fault for having an overpowered minivan :P

As a former Previa owner, I can say that four cylinders should be enough for anyone...

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 09:42

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The only really important this is that you get properly gapped ngk’s.  That seems to be a necessity for Japanese cars to have ngk.  Also the plug wires should be ngk.  As far as type the performance will be about the same regardless.

Ash78, voting early and often > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 09:43

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Dude, Marketing degrees aren’t free!

After flailing around with various plugs over the years, I finally stopped second-guessing the engineers and went back to the stock plugs on every car -- unless you’ve got a tuned turbo vehicle, that’s usually the best bet . Yes, the dealer may want $27 apiece for them, but my experience is that if you buy them yourself, they’re $5-$10 each. YMMV, but plugs always seemed like the “gougiest” of all parts.

Yes, gougiest is a perfectly cromulent word.

ttyymmnn > facw 03/13/2019 at 09:43

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The first Odysseys had 4cyl engines. They were also based on the Accord. The six in this thing really gets up. It’s not as bulky or bloated as the later variants. I really enjoy driving it. When it’s empty. 

ttyymmnn > mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ 03/13/2019 at 09:46

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I’m assuming that the Japanese guy who will work on my car at Honda will know to gap them. I’ve talked to him before, and he seems kind of ADHD nerdy only-talks-about- Hondas kind of guy. He’s the same guy who replaced the engine in a little more than a day, so he seems to know what he’s on about.

facw > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 09:46

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In any event, I’d recommend just getting the NGK Iridium IX that fits and has the right gap.

66P1800inpieces > facw 03/13/2019 at 09:47

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+1 on the above.  Check your owners manual for proper plug model.  It will probably be an NGK model number.  The  version they sell at the dealer is the same part just 3x the price.  

ttyymmnn > Ash78, voting early and often 03/13/2019 at 09:48

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I was going to shoot for the $7.99 ones.

66P1800inpieces > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 09:52

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The Iridium plugs are almost always pre-gapped. Also, the new NGK service guidance is to not use any anti-seize on silver colored NGK plugs, only use it on the more basic black finished plugs. The coating should ablate when you remove them instead of seizing. Also allows you to use the proper torque spec without over torquing (lubricated fasteners put up less resistance and are more prone to over tightening).  That is unless yours are tighten until seated + 90 degrees or some other angle.     

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 09:56

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The spec on that engine is likely an iridium or double platinum, which you’ll probably want to stick to unless you want to change plugs more often. Either of the top two on your list will be fine. Denso makes some very high quality  spark plugs, too. NGK or Denso are my go to.

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 09:59

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Oh yeah he will definitely know to gap them properly! It’s good to have those qualities  in a mechanic.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 10:00

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Just get the OEM NGK’s. The model should be in your owners manual. My stupid mazda takes iridium’s so mucho denero. Like $15/plug even on amazon.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 10:00

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The electrode in the spark plug is traditionally a copper-nickel alloy (hence the Nickle plugs as the cheapest option). Every time the plug fires, the current flow errodes a little bit of that metal, and over time this errosion adds up and wears down the electrode. This opens up the gap, which means for a given amount of current there’s more resistance to electron flow, meaning a weaker, colder spark, which in turn means a smaller, colder initial flame kernel, which reduces combustion efficiency, resulting in a decrease in power and engine efficiency.

Platinum and Iridium plugs combat this with a small cap of said metal over top the traditional alloy electrode. This cap is much more wear resistant so the plugs maintain the gap longer. However they aren’t as conductive so the electron flow moves from the plated tip to the side of the electrode and eventually wear away the electrode sides. Still, this gives more wear surface so they tend to last longer, and maintain gap, so you get more consistent results over the life of the plug vs. a gradual wearing away.

Basically I’d say anything is an improvement over the nickel ones, but I think beyond that you’re paying for incremental refinements. The G-Power Platinum ones are probably fine. 

ttyymmnn > 66P1800inpieces 03/13/2019 at 10:05

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All of this is exactly why I’m going to let my Honda guy put them in. I used to change the plugs on my 88 VW Fox, but this is a bit of a different thing.

ttyymmnn > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 03/13/2019 at 10:06

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My service rep said NGK or Denso only. 

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 10:09

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The iridium should be a good as you need. They will come pre-gapped and should last 100k. The difference between these and the OEM ones is the OEM ones will probably have HONDA on the side instead of NGK.

My Audi plugs are the same way, OEM and NGK R are exactly the same except for the painted label, oh yeah, and the NGKs actually had a nice cardboard tube that keeps the gap from getting screwed up in shipping, unlike my OEM Vag plugs did.  

ttyymmnn > Snuze: Needs another Swede 03/13/2019 at 10:09

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Aaaannnnddd.....this is why I ask Oppo. Thanks. Interestingly, I think you’re the first to vote for the $3.50 plugs. Even if I get the $7.99 flavor, I’m saving $108 over what the dealer would have charged me. 

BigBlock440 > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 10:11

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I was also curious, so I fired up the google machine and it looks like the “R” is special. It’s got a resistor in it to minimize electrical noise from the ignition. I’m not sure what problems it would cause if you didn’t go with the resistor plugs, but I remember some of my cars and some friends cars that you would hear an electrical noise through the radio that matched RPM. I’m wondering if this could have been the cause. Either plug you go with will be a 100k mile part (I got 170k out of a set before I ran into problems and had to change them) since it’s iridium , so you probably won’t have to do it again.

ttyymmnn > BigBlock440 03/13/2019 at 10:14

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Interesting. As I am asking about plugs, I can assure you I have no idea myself. What I know about electricity wouldn’t fill a thimble. As for the R in the photo, that’s just the one I grabbed off the O’Reilly site.

BigBlock440 > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 10:17

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If it’s not an R, than I have no idea what would be different, maybe nothing.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 10:24

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How long do you want to go before you change the plugs again?  That’s the only real difference, as long as they’re all the correct heat temp etc for the car. 

ttyymmnn > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 03/13/2019 at 10:27

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Well, I had the engine swapped out at about 100k miles, and I think it was still on the original plugs. I don’t know if the donor engine got new plugs, but it’s been 1ook since it was put in. So, this set of plugs is at least 100k miles old. It is entirely possible (though unlikely) that I will put another 100k on this vehicle. But probably more like 3-5 years of city driving. My wife says that its days of cross country trips are over, though I am not of the same opinion. Hell, I just rebuilt the transmission. Let’s use it!

Sovande > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 10:38

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I don’t know what the difference might be, but I would not pay $27 each for plugs.  

Sovande > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 10:40

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It is likely one of the easiest things to do on a car.  remove the coil, remove the plug, put a new plug in and reinstall the coil.  There is nothing difficult about it.

ttyymmnn > Sovande 03/13/2019 at 10:41

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If I get the $8 plugs, then I’m still saving $108 over the dealer’s plugs. And I would wager that the dealer bought the $3.50 plugs. 

ttyymmnn > Sovande 03/13/2019 at 10:42

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I know, but I am concerted about torque specs and other things, and since it’s in the shop for other things, I’ll just go ahead and have them do it. I also lack the necessary tools. 

Snuze: Needs another Swede > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 10:43

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You’re welcome and thank you. You make a good point, $48 for 6 plugs still isn’t that bad. I think those would be a great option as well. The big take away is the cheapest ones aren’t going to last, and the most expensive ones are probably overpriced (as in I doubt you’d notice a difference between them and the iridiums that are half the price).

Snuze: Needs another Swede > mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ 03/13/2019 at 10:43

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But will he index them?  Fun fact, this is a “requirement” in the Fit (and possibly some other, newer Hondas).  

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440 03/13/2019 at 10:46

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That's very interesting. My van makes noises in the radio and even a filter didn't clear it up. I have to dig in there to change the injectors and I may look for a set of resister plugs and replace them while I'm at it. Thanks for the tip.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 10:46

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I'd confirm that and get resister plugs.

Sovande > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 10:52

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I would bet the dealer pays next to nothing for the plugs no matter the msrp. The manual is where I would start. Even Volvo branded plugs are only $10-$12 each. 

Sovande > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 10:55

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Well there you go then.

Personally, I would view it as an opportunity to buy the tools to do the job. I’d be willing to bet you can buy a ratchet, cheap torque wrench and a socket set for the cost of the labor to install the plugs. 

BigBlock440 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 03/13/2019 at 10:56

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I have no idea if it’s actually the cause, today is the first day I’m learning of their existence , but maybe it is.  Thinking about it more, it could also have been degraded plug wires or distributor cap too, though I think drivability issues would crop up if it was the cap.  Couldn’t hurt to try though.

i86hotdogs > facw 03/13/2019 at 11:02

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Former? What happened?

facw > i86hotdogs 03/13/2019 at 11:05

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The Previa had been a hand me down, eventually I got a new car and gave it back to my parents. They kept it a couple more years, but ultimately decided they didn’t need a family hauler with 200k miles on it. Sadly I don’t know the VIN, I’d like for it to still be out there somewhere (was running fine, and not in terrible shape when it got traded in).

ttyymmnn > Sovande 03/13/2019 at 11:20

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You are correct on all points. What I lack is desire and courage. 

Future Heap Owner > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 11:26

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NGK makes good plugs. I think they’re OEM for Toyota . PO had some other brand’s platinum ones in there when I bought my Corolla and they started having problems after ~30k, even though the gap was in spec . I put NGK iridium ones in there and they worked great (though I only have a few thousand miles of data on that before my ex drove across the country with it).

The electrode cap material is the important factor, because it determines wear. Beyond that, the spark plug manufacturer claims there are benefits to fuel efficiency and performance, but I am not convinced it’s anything but marketing. Given that the platinum ones are less than half the price of the iridium, but the iridium ones are not going to last twice as long, I’d get the $3.50 platinum ones. Even if you have to replace them one more time, you’re still ahead.

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > Snuze: Needs another Swede 03/13/2019 at 11:30

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index them?

Sovande > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 11:35

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You certainly aren’t lacking in honesty!

ttyymmnn > Future Heap Owner 03/13/2019 at 11:42

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Thanks. These last plugs lasted at least 100k miles, and I don’t foresee getting that many miles out of this next (and likely last) set.

ttyymmnn > Sovande 03/13/2019 at 11:42

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I try to be truthful in all things, both to the world and to myself. And especially my wife.

Sovande > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 11:50

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I take a different approach: I lie to my wife all the time.

I’m kidding.  I live alone.  With some plants.

ttyymmnn > Sovande 03/13/2019 at 11:56

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Don’t lie to your plants. Ever. They watch you sleep. 

ttyymmnn > Future Heap Owner 03/13/2019 at 12:38

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From the manual:

The spark plugs in your vehicle are a special platinum-tipped design for longer life. The spark plugs should be replaced according to the time and distance recommended in the maintenance schedule.

Sounds like the $3.4 9 plugs will do just fine.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ 03/13/2019 at 12:40

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Ensure the ground prong is facing the correct way in the cylinder. I was also mistaken, it was the Insight, not the Fit. But due to the dynamics of the combustion in the cylinder, there is an optimum direction for the ground prong to face relative to the intake/exhaust valves.  

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > Snuze: Needs another Swede 03/13/2019 at 12:55

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Hmm.  Didn’t know about that.  Thanks for sharing!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ 03/13/2019 at 13:06

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You’re welcome. There’s some YouTube and other info out there about it if you google around . And you can buy packs of thin split washers if you want to try it. I’ve never done it, I just know about it from an automotive engineering textbook I used to have . From what I can remember Honda actually did some dyno testing on it and verified it’s worth several HP, and the original Insight only made like 60  HP so that’s something. Also, that engine is ultra-lean-burn, it can drop down to 30:1 AFR and IIRC Honda does that throug swirl, creating a “ charge column” in the combustion chamber. So the indexed spark plugs may be a necessity to get good ignition and burn.

Sovande > ttyymmnn 03/13/2019 at 13:27

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This is the kind of advice I activel y seek on the internet.

i86hotdogs > facw 03/13/2019 at 14:32

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I would’ve bought that in a heartbeat

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > Snuze: Needs another Swede 03/13/2019 at 16:01

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I will check that out!

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440 03/13/2019 at 18:32

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My friend the ASE guru says that he thinks all plugs any more are resistant to passing on noise.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Future Heap Owner 03/14/2019 at 05:47

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Denso plugs  are OEM for Toyota. i think they own a part of the company